Friday, May 22, 2009

25 Man Woe's, UFC talk

What is so difficult about 25 mans?

This is not a rhetorical question. What REALLY is harder about 25 mans?

Personal responsibility is less. That should make it easier though, Right? I mean 1 person dieing is proportionally less dps or healing than losing someone in a 10 man instance. If a tank goes down you are more likely to have a back up tank available to pick the boss up in a 25 man.

I guess the gear requirement or dps threshold is a bit higher, But I have found that most of the increased dps needed on the 25 man raids comes from having so many more buffs(not to mention access to 25 man gear if you are running 25 man raids). Its not as if the dps gap needed for a 10 man and a 25 man is so great that you need to have a whole new rotation or be ultra precise with your current one. You just have a few more buffs, possibly a bit better gear, and pound out your rotation as usual.

Is it the strategies? Doubtful. With a few minor differences that all come down to gimmick, the fights are the same in 25 man.
Is it the caliber of player we take? In the 10 mans, everyone seems motivated on their own. They rebuff, they run back, they don't afk.
It really comes down to the fact that it is much harder to get 25 qualified people online and ready to go than it is to get 10.

Guild Woe's

As you may have gathered from my rant, our guild has been very FAIL with the 25 man raids these days. It honestly saps my desire to play. As officers collectivity we are tired of having to pug people into our runs. Its a burden and ALWAYS leads to the raid starting late. It prevents us from getting loot into the hands of those that need it. Pugs are also not welcome in progression raiding. They either won't know the fight/Can't preform said fight, OR they will leave early and frustrated that we couldn't down it. We have come to the conclusion that if there is not 25 guildies on to run the raid, we will break down into two 10 man groups.

Holy S%#7

I have been working on my priest a bit lately. You really start to notice the lack of re-playability on the quests. I am not one for leveling in the first place, but when you have to do the exact same quests it makes it even worse. Once again, I don't think I could have done it(can do it?) without Jame.

As the header sort of implys, I plan on taking my priest down the healer path(although I will likely go the disc route). I did a lot of arenas as disc at level 70 so I am familar with the bag of tricks I will have. At this point I can't wait to get rid of my shadow spec and start healing peoples faces off (or back on I guess).

UFC Undisputed 2009

This game is the mad notes. I was a bit skeptical at first considering how bad the old ufc games were, but this game hit it right on. I am not going to say the game is perfect. There are some minor things that could be done here and there to tighten up the single player. The AI is ridiculously hard to submit. I was really upset that submissions were not an realistic way to win. Turns out though, in multiplayer they seem pretty balanced. As a ufc fan I give this game a 9.5. As a general video game fan I would give it a solid 8 or 8.5. The controlls are pretty much spot on and it really captures the feel of the ufc.

...Speaking of UFC. UFC 98 tommarow night. Evans v. Machida! Battle of the unbeatens. THE GREATEST FIGHT IN UFC HISTORY! (arn't they all? I'm pretty sure that claim is made before every single ppv.)

My breakdown goes like this. Machida will win if the fight goes to decision. He will also win if Evans falls into the trap of chasing him around the ring. He could also finish the fight via submission or ground and pound. I see Evans winning the fight if he sucssesfully imposes his will against Machida. If Evans is able to utilize his explosiveness and power, he could get the KO. I don't really see evans winning the fight via GnP, but I guess its possible.

All in all I'm giving the fight to Machida. His elusiveness will be to much for Evans. Unless Evans manages the KO shot I don't see him winning the fight in any other way.

Have a good weekend everyone.


HP said...

yeah my guild's 25 man raids have been sucking lately too but hopefully people start playing seriously and get their heads out their asses. Anyway, I hope things work out for you!

PS I do agree that 25 mans are harder rarely due to strategy but only in the logistical parts.

Green Armadillo said...

In an actual bleeding-edge encounter, such as the ones in Sunwell, that requires perfect contribution from every single member of the raid, will be harder to complete in 25-man because there are 15 additional players who need to play perfectly.

However, it's a point of debate whether or not there are any such encounters in the game at the moment. An encounter that is NOT tuned to 100% can actually, as you note, get easier because there are 24 people around to make up for any mistakes. At that point, the only increased difficulty is the out-of-game logistics.

Hagu said...

Perhaps I am biased by my current circumstances, but I suspect you will find that PUGs will work better than 10 mans. How many people are dedicated enough to play reliably, yet not driven to the epeen of 25s? 10s work as 8-11 friends who would be friends w/o raiding. Or the churn horror of a "join so we can get you geared up enough to move to a more progressed guild" Saying that 25-mans need to drop better loot seemed like a reasonable design choice, but I think the current political issues are tough on ten man guilds. I understand that pugging is very, very unpleasant, but is it really worse than the alternatives? Is it worse than losing some good people because you haven't done U25 in a week or two?

P said...


I think what it really comes down to. Is that if your having to pug 10 people, you have no way of starting on time. if you have no way of starting on time, your losing raid time every single raid, and when you are already raiding for 4 hours, losing the first 40 minutes of that can cause problems.

You can't even start to pug before raid time, because people will log on at the last minute and demand a spot.

Starting the 25 man raid should really be as easy as posting sign ups, showing up 15-30 minutes early, and inviting your group.

sparklefreeze said...

I love 25 mans.. It's the time when I can actually just AFK in a fight and chill while I watch the other healers do their magic. srsly, 5 heals is enough for Naxx, we've tried.. I'm the 6th = the Surgeon General who does nothing but entertain with QQs about the DPS in our custom RLs channel.. =P

Fish said...

Or Evans could try to dance around the ring and get KNOCKEDTHEFUCKOUT in the second round lol The main event was a pretty good fight. Machida is a much more rounded, disciplined fighter than Evans and will make a better champion I think. Hughes vs Serra was disappointing. Matt Serra is the most frustrating fighter ever to me. How can you have a black belt in jujitsu but never use it?

Manchego / Ribeye said...

Good Lord, do I feel your pain.

We've been having so many "failure to launch" moments with 25s lately, I could just scream. Sure, 2x10 is much nicer, and helps people to learn the fights - me included - but FFS. I want 25 man loot and 25 man challenge.

Also, as to 25 > 10 difficulty... I think it relates more to the lowered margin for error. Yes, the raid can sustain the loss of 1 healer / dps in 25 with less impact than a 10. The tolerance for stupid is less, though. That vod zone you're standing in will kill you outright in 25, but you might eat two ticks in 10 - that sort of thing. Ulduar right now seems to be tuned to the point that a raid in Naxx25 gear isn't going to be able to have consistent success with 21-22 people like you could in Naxx.

Some stuff is markedly easier in 25 - like Grobbulus, who is a complete joke. Some stuff (Razorscale, for instance) gets noticeably harder.

Me, I'd just be happy with a full raid.